Scaling Everest—and DEI Work

Lauren Guthrie wasn’t much of a trekker or backpacker, but there she was, climbing 9,000 feet to reach the base camp at Mount Everest. The opportunity to join an all-Black team of climbers was too good to pass up—plus, it taught her valuable lessons about diversity in the corporate space. Guthrie is the vice president of global inclusion, diversity, equity and action (IDEA) and talent development at VF Corporation, the company behind big-name outdoor brands like The North Face and Smartwool. On this episode of the Voices of Experience podcast, she explains what it takes to create DEI initiatives that work and how to practice DEI on a global scale.

Show Notes

Lauren Guthrie is the vice president of global inclusion, diversity, equity and action (IDEA) and talent development at VF Corporation, the parent company for brands like The North Face, Vans, Dickies and JanSport, among others. She is also a member of Chief and on the board of Diversity MBA.

1:16 Adding “action” to DEI
4:26 From merchandising to the IDEA sphere
10:24 DEI work at home
12:19 “Global” DEI work vs. domestic DEI work
15:50 What makes a DEI initiative work?
19:04 Climbing Mount Everest
22:06 Extending an “invitation to participate”
26:06 The power of partner dancing
28:36 “Don’t be fearful of being expansive”
30:00 Show notes and credits

In this episode:

Transcript

Lorne Fultonberg:
This month on the Voices of Experience podcast: lessons in diversity from base camp at Mount Everest.

Lauren Guthrie (clip from interview):
One of the things we’ve tried to bottle and capture from the experience is how can our brands also ensure that they’re extending invitations to participate?

Lorne Fultonberg:
Lauren Guthrie is the global IDEA and talent development leader at VF Corporation, an outdoor empire. VF is the parent company for all the big names: The North Face, Timberland, Jansport, Vans, Dickies—I could go on.

Guthrie, a Black woman, looked around the office and realized there weren’t a lot of co-workers that looked like her, and she didn’t feel too welcome in hiking, climbing and mountaineering spaces. So she moved from her merchandising job to a position focused on diversity, equity and inclusion.

On this episode, we asked her how to design a diversity initiative that actually works and works on a global scale. Plus, she told us how her time on the dance floor helped her find her footing later in her career. And yes, we will talk about climbing Mount Everest.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Lauren, thanks for joining us.

Lauren Guthrie:
Thank you so much for having me.

Lorne Fultonberg:
My first question for you is about that job title we just mentioned in the intro. I think pretty much everyone in the business world is familiar with the acronym DEI by now: diversity, equity, and inclusion. More recently, I’ve heard JEDI: justice, equity, diversity and Inclusion. Your title has an acronym that I hadn’t heard, IDEA, which is Inclusion, diversity, equity, and action. Can you tell me where that came from, and why you think it’s important to have it in your title?

Lauren Guthrie:
Sure. I have had the privilege of doing this work for now almost the past three years, and stepped into the role in July of 2020 amidst multiple pandemics, right? Public health pandemic, social justice pandemic. And VF had had a longstanding history of supporting inclusion and diversity, and the naming convention actually really articulated the scope of the work. We were focused on diversity from a representation perspective, diversifying our workforce, and we’re really focused on inclusion primarily through our employee resource group structure. And when I had the opportunity to step into this role, recognizing the needs of the moment, really the demands from our various stakeholder groups, whether that was our associates, our consumers, or the communities around us, we recognized that there was a need to embrace equity more intentionally through our strategy. we recognized that we needed a naming convention that would truly represent the intentionality, but not just the words, right? The intentionality through our action, and our commitment to action moving forward. So that’s where IDEA was born, this idea that we had an obligation and the necessity to support stronger equity initiatives throughout our platform, and that we wanted to be really clear to all of our stakeholders that this wasn’t about a moment in time, this was part of who we are as an organization. The work is embedded in our purpose, and that we wanted to really be clear about that commitment to action for the future as well.

Lorne Fultonberg:
As someone who works in communications, I’m always really interested in words, and the effect that they have. Does adding the word action into an acronym really make that much of a difference?

Lauren Guthrie:
I think I’m also someone who thinks words matter. And so as I’m talking about my work, as our team is talking about the work, as the organization is really stepping into the work, the intentionality around IDEA really does matter for us, and we continue to call on that call to action recognizing that this work isn’t owned by any single individual within the organization. It’s really work that we ask to be championed across the organization, not just in our human resource function, but in every business-facing function. And so for us to stand behind the A really matters, and we continue to elevate that ask of our associates as we drive the work forward.

Lorne Fultonberg:
We’re going to talk plenty more about your work in this sphere, but I also wanted to ask before you moved into the IDEA diversity space, most of your career was in merchandising. Is that right?

Lauren Guthrie:
That’s correct.

Lorne Fultonberg:
So you were at places like Abercrombie and Fitch, Nike, Old Navy, Levi Strauss. How did you make the transition from that world to the world you’re in now?

Lauren Guthrie:
That’s a great question. Or how did the transition find me might be the better question. But yeah, most of my career has been in merchandising, and the way that I would characterize that work is ultimately servicing our consumer in a number of different brand contexts. And I loved that work. I have a background, or actually I have a degree in history, and I minored in psychology in school. And for me, what both of those disciplines come down to is someone who’s curious about humanity, and humans, and human behavior, and someone who’s really interested in trends in storytelling. And so for me, merchandising was a way to put all of that together, to obsess consumer need, to look at macro trend and all the influences on how consumers behaved and try to create business strategies that met the moment of where we are as a brand in that context, and figure out how to move it forward.

And so I loved doing that work, and had the chance to work for some really incredible brands and actually went from Old Navy to the North Face, and at that time was responsible for leading the regional merchandising team for the brand. But coming into the North Face, I can honestly say it’s one of the first companies that I sought out based on values, and chose based on value alignment. So it was really exciting to work for a brand that was passionate about triple bottom line, right? Thinking about sustainability efforts and community and worker rights. However, I found myself being one of few people of color in the company, and felt like there was a need to have more conversations about identity from a place of racial and ethnic diversity as well as from a gender identity perspective as well. And so was actually one of the co-founders of our first employee resource group at VF, but we framed it up through the North Face at the time in support of racial and ethnic diversity called ACE Diversity.

We existed to create belonging for associates internally, but also to help navigate conversations with the brand about how to connect authentically with more diverse consumer groups as well. And so then ultimately became an executive sponsor for that group as my scope with the brand increased in the merchandising role. And then really, 2020 hit, and as referenced before, a really important moment of inflection and reflection for the world, but certainly for me as well.

I was married at the time, but I had two small children. My daughter was in second grade and was being homeschooled as schools were shut down. My son was five months old. And I think the weight for me of the recognition that I was raising a black man in this society was incredibly impactful and terrifying. I had a really important job that had a lot of really important demands, and yet I was really fearful for the safety of my family. And trying to balance all of these things allowed me a source of perspective that I felt like I needed to share with the company that I worked for and loved.

And the way that I did that was to write a letter to the brand president at the time to say, “Hey, this isn’t a moment for business as usual. There are many of us who can’t operate in that way, and here’s some of the reasons for that, and here’s some of the ways I see that the brand can better support the moment that we’re in. And one of those is to be more overt about our commitment to anti-racism, and to create safe spaces for associates to bring their emotion and their grief and their trauma into the workplace.” And that was extraordinarily well received. So when I say that this moment found me, I think by me being about some of the challenges I was personally experiencing and advocating for my community from ACE Diversity, our employee resource group, we were actually given an incredible platform by VF to drive programming and support of our entire associate base to help navigate that moment, to build allyship, to build understanding around the needs of certain groups at that time, and then ultimately, to build a groundswell of support for an anti-racism movement.

And so that activation really presented me with a choice: I could continue in my merchandising role, or VF actually offered me an opportunity to stand up and lead our council to advance racial equity, so essentially to step into this work full-time. And so what that has required of me is translating the skillset I had developed through merchandising, and apply it against a different audience.

Our strategy is built to support the communities in which we live and work around the world. So all of that passion for human connection, passion to understand humanity, curiosity about human behavior, the ability to tell stories and seek out trends, that was really critical to my success in merchandising. I’ve been able to leverage all of those core skills in this work, really just applied in a different way. And the beauty of it is it’s still in support of the brands and the consumers and the company with whom I have such strong value alignment. So it’s been a really interesting journey, one that I could never have foretold 20 years ago, but is certainly using every aspect of my past experience.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Is there a lot of crossover between the work you’re doing in the office and the work you’re doing at home, raising your son, raising a black man? Are there experiences from each that can be applied to the other?

Lauren Guthrie:
Absolutely. I think the work of IDEA or DEI is the culmination of everyone’s individual experiences. I think what I experience as a multi-hyphenate person in this world: I’m a mother, I’m a black woman, I’m a daughter, I’m a sister, I am near-sighted. There are all these elements of my interaction with the world that frame my perspective. And I think the beauty of this work is recognizing that everybody’s uniquenesses are valuable, and everybody’s perspective matters. That’s what’s set up at the heart of diversity. Recognizing where I’ve had challenges and being curious about other people’s experiences and challenges is what helps us unlock maybe some of the cultural behavioral tenets that are getting in the way of inclusion.

And certainly understanding how systems have limited, for example, my parents’ experience in this country, and their ability to feel like they’ve had equal access to success opportunities. And in some ways, I felt that too, even growing, being born in 1981, I’m going to give away my age, and in a very different era, but certainly have felt the impact I think encourages me to seek out where systems may be limiting other people. So what I try not to do is assume that my experience is the same as anyone else’s, but certainly in recognizing where I feel pressure points may allow me to be curious and seek out solutions for the same challenges that may exist for others.

Lorne Fultonberg:
In 2020, like you said, you took that position at VF, first ever Vice President of Global Inclusion and Diversity, The word global stuck out to me there, and it made me wonder, is global inclusion and diversity work any different than purely in the United States?

Lauren Guthrie:
It’s a great question. I think it just maximizes the complexity. So when we think about the layers of history and context, whether that’s social, political, economic, that influence our experience here, and you multiply that across the dozens of countries that we support as an organization, either places where we have corporate presence, or places where our brands are engaging with consumers, it really just maximizes the complexity.

And so I’m lucky enough to have a team of folks who are supporting me in this work, particularly on the IDEA side. We have one person who lives and works out of Singapore who’s supporting our APAC region. We have another person who lives and works out of Stabio, Switzerland, who’s supporting our European region, and they bring incredible diverse perspective and sense of prioritization for the work. So one thing I will say is there’s no one-size-fits-all approach. That is magnified at VF by the fact that we have 12 global brands that we support, and each brand has a different way of engaging with consumers, has a different brand story, has different baggage based on their history, has different leaders who are in a different place in their journey.

In each country where we operate, there are different legalities, there’s different data points we’re allowed to ask for or reference. And certainly as referenced before, there’s different context that affects the associate experience. So I would say a lot of the tenets are the same, but how they’re expressed may be different. There may be cultural norms that we need to be mindful of, but I think the beauty of this work is when you center diversity and multiplicity of perspective at the heart of the work, the globalness of it keeps it interesting. It keeps us on our toes. There’s certainly learnings we can take from one place to apply to another, but it really continues to reinforce the fact that the work has to meet the moment, has to meet the person, and that we’re always looking for different entry points for people to step into the work to ensure that it’s meaningful for them.

Lorne Fultonberg:
So a lot of conversations, a lot of questions to understand some of these complexities.

Lauren Guthrie:
A lot of research, a lot of mistakes, a lot of willingness to apologize because we don’t get it right all the time. And when we get it wrong, a lot of times that’s at the level of identity, right? So I mean, even just tackling that in the US, you think about the amount of forces that affect our interactions here. But I think that commitment to the ultimate belief that IDEA makes us better, IDEA strengthens our culture as an organization, and IDEA strengthens our business and those core tenets. Continuing to build on them globally just makes us better as an organization.

Lorne Fultonberg:
A lot of organizations now are working on diversity and inclusion initiatives, trying to make their workplaces better. It seems to me, though, there is definitely a line between something that works and something that doesn’t. And I’m trying to find what the line is. What is the make-or-break between a diversity initiative that works and something that falls short?

Lauren Guthrie:
Yeah, that’s a great question. There’s a lot of nuance there, I think, and it really ultimately comes down to the key objectives of an initiative. For us, when we’re building a strategy, we’re really clear about the root cause, what we’re trying to solve, and the outcome that we want to see as a result of addressing that thing. And so ultimately for us, what is successful is something that delivers on that. And I think there are degrees of failures, and even within failure, there’s success if you can really pull out key learnings to move you forward. But I think within IDEA work, what’s really important is having some sense of accountability metrics, and being really clear on what those are, so that you can hold yourself accountable, and you can keep striving for forward momentum. This is work that is heavily reliant upon commitments. But I think without those accountability measures, it’s easy to make the statement and not follow it up with the work. And the work is hard. So I think for me, a failed initiative would be one that doesn’t have a clear outcome.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Can you give an example of something like that?

Lauren Guthrie:
Well, no, because we don’t do that here. No, I’m just kidding.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Perfect success rate.

Lauren Guthrie:
Yeah. No, I think a good example would be if we say, “Hey, we need to have more unconscious bias training at the organization,” and so we can then conduct unconscious bias training. If we don’t understand why we’re doing it, what is the symptom that we see in our organization that we’re treating with unconscious bias? And what is the impact that we want to see as a result of that training, i.e., that is we want to see an increase in our promotion rates for diverse internal associates, or we want to see less gendered language in our job descriptions.

We need to have some clear way to measure so that you can assess the effectiveness of the initiative. And I think in this work, there are lots of trendy initiatives, things that companies jump on board with without a clear understanding of the impact that they want to see. And so then you run the risk of either further alienation with the concept of DEI, or disenfranchisement with the concept of DEI, because people don’t understand why they’re stepping into the work. Or you have no way to understand if you’re being helpful to the culture or harmful to the culture. So for us, data is critical, and being able to understand the impact of the work, track that over time so that you can continuously finesse your strategy, is critical.

Lorne Fultonberg:
We’ve been talking a lot about the action that goes with diversity, equity, and inclusion work. And so I had to ask you about this action that you took. In 2022, you climbed to the base camp of Mount Everest, and this was with an all black group of climbers, the Full Circle Expedition Team. How the heck did you end up there?

Lauren Guthrie:
I’m still trying to figure that out. Yeah, absolutely a life changing experience, but for a lot of reasons. So as mentioned in our work, we really seek to support three key audiences: associates, consumers, and communities. And this initiative is one that ties all three together. This group, Full Circle Everest Expedition, came to us with a proposal for funding, and brought that proposal to the North Face as a brand, recognizing the power of the brand, and the brand has done an incredible job addressing inequities in the outdoors and providing philanthropic support for big initiatives like these.

And so this actually became a partnership between IDEA, the VF Foundation, and the North Face, and Smartwool, another one of our brands, to provide financial support for the expedition. But the group leader actually invited me to participate as a way to witness the experience, to be part of the storytelling arc and narrative, and to really try to unpack some of the key aspects of this experience that may help us be more thoughtful about how we, as a company and through our brands, invite folks who haven’t historically been invited to participate in the outdoors, and so grateful for his wisdom and grateful for his generosity and allowing me to join the group as they really conducted this historical moment on behalf of Black Americans.

And so made the trek from Kathmandu to Everest Base Camp, which is about 14,000 vertical feet of elevation.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Oh, my gosh.

Lauren Guthrie:
For me, it was super impactful because I had never packed or trekked ever in my life, and so it was a really introspective opportunity for me to think about why I had never thought those activities were for me, and what was keeping me from participating fully in the activities that our company supports, and that I’m surrounded by every day. And just really had an incredible, life-altering experience with a very inspiring group of climbers from really around the world, and just super grateful to have witnessed their achievement, and to have been part of helping it come to fruition.

Lorne Fultonberg:
That’s really interesting because even working within this organization that is a leader worldwide in the outdoor industry, it still doesn’t always feel accessible.

Lauren Guthrie:
Or welcome 100%. It’s intimidating. It can be intimidating. And I think what was really powerful about this experience was the invitation to participate. And that’s one of the things that we’ve tried to bottle and capture from the experience is how can our brands also ensure that they’re extending invitations to participate, and being very thoughtful about, being very direct about what the barriers have been, and in cases like the North Face and Smartwool, in this case, taking actions to break down those barriers, to change the face of representation, to change the narrative around what elite mountaineering can look like, and then to also take steps to make sure the next generation finds it more accessible, and finds themselves welcome. So super proud of the brand. Also, proud of myself for stepping into the challenge. My kids were terrified for me, but what an incredible experience to be a part of their historical moment, and I’m just glad I can be part of the storytelling.

Lorne Fultonberg:
There’s a great video online that we’re going to link in our show notes where you are telling the story of some of your Everest climb, and one of the things that you say in there is that you were pretty much the slowest one in the group, but that maybe wasn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Lauren Guthrie:
Yeah, I was definitely the slowest person in the group.

Lorne Fultonberg:
No question?

Lauren Guthrie:
Yeah, there’s no maybe about that. But yeah, I had an incredible supporter. His name is KG, James Kagambi, who is a Kenyan 62-year-old climber, who’s actually taking a person on my team up Kilimanjaro as we speak, and he decided to walk with me, and I was so humbled by that. A lot of times we walked in silence. Sometimes he would coach me, but it became a really intimate experience in exercise and connection. He listened to my breath and he adjusted our pace based upon how I was breathing and became a multi-week walking meditation for me, which was incredibly powerful as someone who believes in meditation. But I think what was really interesting is there was a moment when we were walking in complete silence, and he turned around and he said, “I’m not doing this for you,” and all I could do is laugh.

And he said, “I don’t know if I’ll ever be here again, and walking with you is allowing me the opportunity to fully take in where I am each moment.” And I thought it was such a way to reframe this. I was so afraid that I was taking something from him by forcing him to walk slow, and I had guilt attached to that. Whereas, in fact, he was experiencing it completely differently. There was a value in walking with me and having the time to enjoy the moment and recognize the moment that he was in. So many lessons learned from that experience. Some of them are certainly practical and tactical in their skillset and application in terms of, I now know that I’m capable physically of trekking something of that difficulty, but what’s even more important than that for me is this sense of connection that I had with many of the climbers, but particularly with KG, and also many life lessons that I’ll keep with me far beyond the boundaries of the trip.

Lorne Fultonberg:
In that video about your Everest climb, you also talk a lot about the importance of inspiration. It’s probably just because I am a dancer as well, but I had to ask you about the importance of dance in your life, because in doing some research I read you were on the ballroom dance team at Columbia, and your first couple jobs out of college were also in the dance space?

Lauren Guthrie:
Yeah, I love talking about dance.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Me, too.

Lauren Guthrie:
And I will need to learn more about your dance experience too. Yeah. I started ballet, or my mother started me dancing ballet at two and a half, so it’s always been part of my creative self-expression. However, when I got to college, I found partner dancing or ballroom dancing, and that, to me, just awakened a whole ‘nother level of passion and joy for me in dance. When I think back to ballet, for me, it was all about connection with music. And if you’re in an ensemble cast, the peer and camaraderie, but there’s something really special about you dancing with another individual. I just absolutely fell in love with the ability to connect with another human in a moment in space and time.

And I actually lean on salsa everywhere I travel. It is my source of community. I can be in a country where I don’t speak the language and can connect with somebody really authentically and beautifully through dance, and it’s something that I’ve held onto my entire life. Ballroom took on a pretty important role for me out of college. I had no idea what I wanted to do. And so I leaned on dance, and ended up working for a dance studio in Times Square called Dance Times Square as a marketing and communications lead, which meant I was writing copy for their website and dancing a whole lot. But what was really cool is it really started me, started my career, helped me understand the right balance of passion and skillset, and I’ve sought to replicate that in every role that I’ve had since. And also, it was a studio that a lot of the original pros from Dancing With the Stars came out of. So I have some pretty cool friends who’ve gone on to do amazing things. But yeah, but dance will always be my first love.

Lorne Fultonberg:
The connection with a partner is so wonderful, and I totally understand and relate. The last thing I wanted to ask you, Lauren, which we ask all of our guests here: as a Voice of Experience. What is something that you would want to pass on to our listeners?

Lauren Guthrie:
Absolutely. Oh, that’s always a hard question. I think for me, the thing I always celebrate is authenticity. And I think a lot of times, we like to believe in a story of ourselves, and it keeps us trapped and limited to what we can see and what we believe. But I think life and career offer so many unexpected opportunities to step into that will play on strengths you didn’t know you had, and passions you had not yet seen. And my career story is one of saying yes strategically to the right things, and many of those things were opportunities I could have never visioned for myself. So I say find the balance of passion, perseverance, and lean into luck, and lean into opportunity, and find those ways to be authentic to who you are without containing yourself to a narrative. So don’t be fearful of being expansive.

Lorne Fultonberg:
That’s Lauren Guthrie, the global IDEA and talent development leader at VF Corporation. Lauren, it was so much fun talking to you. Thanks.

Lauren Guthrie:
Oh, so much fun talking to you. Thanks again for having me.

Lorne Fultonberg:
How do you prepare to climb 14,000 feet to Mount Everest’s base camp? Lauren Guthrie can tell you how she did it. Reflections, observations, photos, videos and so much more are on our show notes. That’s at daniels.du.edu/voe-podcast.

The VOE podcast is an extension of Voices of Experience, the signature speaker series at the Daniels College of Business, sponsored by U.S. Bank. Chloe Smith is our sound engineer. Alumnus Joshua Metzel wrote our theme. I’m Lorne Fultonberg. We’ll see you next time.

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DANIELS COLLEGE OF BUSINESS AT UNIVERSITY OF DENVER