Reshaping Downtown Denver

The heart of the Mile High City could get a major jolt of electricity. If all goes according to plan, the Ball Arena Redevelopment Project will pave the way for new buildings, parks, housing and litany of retail spaces that are estimated to expand downtown by 40%. For Matt Mahoney, senior vice president of development at Kroenke Sports and Entertainment (KSE), scoping the massive project is as much an exercise in architecture as it is in building relationships—especially in a place like Denver, where “development” can be a dirty word. On this episode of the Voices of Experience podcast, Mahoney explains KSE’s vision for a new entertainment district, the key to getting the community on board, and how to plan for a project that won’t wrap up for at least 20 years.

Show Notes

Matt Mahoney

Matt Mahoney is the senior vice president of development at Kroenke Sports and Entertainment.

1:13 Ball Arena redevelopment in a nutshell
2:19 Why arenas make vibrant neighborhoods
3:52 Building a (literal) bridge between communities
5:10 What about overdevelopment?
Make or break factors for a district
8:30 The growth of sports ownership empires
10:08 Planning a 20-year project
12:25 Will Ball Arena be replaced?
15:06 From a history to degree to a development career
17:04 “It may not be a perfect role but just get it”
19:36 Getting people to like you
20:54 Show notes and credits

In this episode:

Transcript

Lorne Fultonberg:
Today on the Voices of Experience podcast:

Matt Mahoney:
There’s, I think, rare times in life at this moment where everyone can come together and be on the same page and root for a team, and it’s just positive energy, and people are drawn to that.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Changing the look of downtown Denver, and winning over a bunch of Coloradans who tend to be, well, pretty skeptical of development.

Matt Mahoney:
I think it comes down to standing behind your word, right? And if you tell someone you’re going to do it, you end up doing it, that stacks on top of itself

Lorne Fultonberg:
Matt Mahoney is the senior vice president of development at Kroenke Sports and Entertainment. And he is also the face of the big Ball Arena Redevelopment Project. He’ll give you the details in a second but, in short, Kroenke is creating a new destination neighborhood, centered around a few of Denver’s most successful pro sports teams. That’s gonna come with parks, shopping and plenty of new buildings.

On this episode, Matt gives us a lesson in partnership and how to plan a project that, plainly, many people may not live to see completed.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Matt, welcome.

Matt Mahoney:
Thank you for having me.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Give us a quick overview of this big Ball Arena project, and where you begin to take on something so massive.

Matt Mahoney:
What we’re endeavoring to do is to build a community around Ball Arena. The size of the property is roughly 65 acres, and we’re going through many chapters of a future neighborhood development there.

We’re working towards a density that’s between 10 and 12 million square feet. The zoning that we’re looking to achieve allows us some real high buildings and some good density on property, which equates to a lot of housing, which will equate to a lot of affordable housing for Denver, which is a huge need at the moment. So we’re excited about that. We’re excited about the opportunity that we can bring to downtown at this moment and over a long period of time to deliver a neighborhood that’s dense, lot of homes, affordable, and a place that you’d want to live downtown.

Lorne Fultonberg:
What is it about an arena that has the potential to transform a neighborhood?

Matt Mahoney:
The trend across the country right now are these sports-anchored mixed use districts. You see them a lot. They’re popping up all over the place. And why is that? Well, I think folks are drawn to sports, that’s number one. It’s a community for people to come to.

There’s, I think, rare times in life at this moment where everyone can come together and be on the same page and root for a team, and it’s just positive energy, and people are drawn to that. So I think owners are looking at their real estate holdings around the arena and saying, “Hey, you know what? There’s something going on here, and instead of just having this energy happen on game days, why can’t we make this energy happen pre-game, post-game, and an everyday experience?”

I think the game day experience can take care of itself pretty easily. I mean, I think that’s pretty straightforward what you can do between bars and restaurants and activations, but I think it’s really working with the community and listening to the community, what the community would want to see on property and reflecting that of just every day. Are there grocery stores? Is there daycare, right? Will folks feel like they can really just honestly live, work, and play right there? And that’s been the focus of our planning over the last two and a half years.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I imagine that involves talking to the community a fair amount.

Matt Mahoney:
It does. Yes.

Lorne Fultonberg:
What have you heard from them?

Matt Mahoney:
Yeah, the community has been a great partner of ours. We have been very intentional about listening and trying to reflect what the community wants to see in this plan. We have a community benefits agreement that we’ve been working through with the surrounding kind of neighborhood districts. That’s Sun Valley and Lincoln Park, Jefferson Park, lower Highlands, LoDo.

And I think the consensus has been about job creation, it’s been about affordable housing when you look at the property, it’s got some hard boundaries around it, between railroad tracks in Auraria and Speer and I-25 and the focus of the planning and overriding theme I think is about connections as well and making connections and how can we make those physical connections and how can we make those intentional community connections, right?

And we’re proposing a bridge at Speer Boulevard. Speer is a tough crossing. If you’re going from downtown to Ball and you have to cross against Speer, man, that’s not a good environment. So we’re proposing a bridge. That bridge is going to be a pedestrian and bike only crossing, so you’d be able to go real easily back and forth from the two properties.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Yeah. This project I read has the potential to expand downtown Denver by 40%. I know a lot of Coloradans are very sensitive to overdevelopment and overgrowth. Has there been any sort of strategy or consideration about getting people on board given the sensitivity to this overpopulation, overgrowth?

Matt Mahoney:
Yeah, Colorado is obviously a very attractive place to live. To your point, we’ve had a lot of population growth. Well, when you look at that, isn’t the downtown area the right place to put that population growth? We feel like our property can help solve that issue.

We have two light rail stops on property, that can really alleviate traffic. If we’ve got folks being able to live right downtown and walk to work, bike to work, that’s a big difference than driving your car to work from surrounding neighborhoods

Lorne Fultonberg:
I know you said you’ve looked at a bunch of different arenas across the country that are doing this, really studied them. Here in Colorado and in Denver we have our own success stories and things that maybe haven’t done as well in the entertainment district area. What are the sort of things that make or break success?

Matt Mahoney:
I mean, I mentioned kind of that the everyday activity. I think that is the key deal. Some of the districts we’ve gone to and have visited have been on a Tuesday at 2:00, and it’s just dead. They have these large plazas that you can envision being activated and fun place to be during game time, but on Tuesday at a lunchtime or two o’clock, no one’s there, and it just doesn’t feel good.

So the neighborhood districts that we’ve really found appeal to have actually a lot of density around them already, so they have a running start of that. We don’t, but we’re planning for future density. So it’s an interesting strategy for us there.

We were in Chicago just a couple of weeks ago at Wrigley Field, and the Cubs have done an amazing job. Marquee Development has done an amazing job on activating that plaza and right sizing the plaza for everyday use. It feels tucked in, it feels intimate, right? You don’t feel lost in that space. And I’m sure on a huge game, a playoff game, is it too small? It could be, but they spill out into the streets, and it’s a party street at a party plaza, and that just feels really good.

Lorne Fultonberg:
What can you tell us about the ways that these ownership groups have changed over the years? I mean, historically owners did not own cable TV stations like Altitude, they didn’t own the platforms that you’re selling tickets on. It seems like empires like Kroenke just keep growing outward, right?

Matt Mahoney:
Yeah. I think there’s an opportunity and a strategy for us to really integrate all of those assets and all of those ownerships and the relationships so that the relationships we made have at SoFi and at Hollywood Park, how do those translate to Denver? How do they translate to London with the Arsenal? And I think that the integration of sports and media and real estate is the key aspect for us, and we’re moving away. I think most of these sports owners and developers are moving away from kind of these isolated or siloed approaches, and it’s really moving towards this kind of holistic integrated model.

Lorne Fultonberg:
To this point where you really are going to be part of a huge chunk of Denver with this project.

Matt Mahoney:
Sure.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I’m so interested in this question. I read about these big development projects in Denver like yours, and they have completion dates that are like 20 to 25 years in the future. So much can change in that time. I looked up, Facebook was born 20 years ago, iPhones didn’t exist 20 years ago. So how do you plan for a project that is so far in the future, and how do you sell people on something that may not be happening in their lifetime?

Matt Mahoney:
Right. Well, I think one of the key aspects of that is the zoning that we’re looking to achieve here in October. The zoning provides real developer flexibility. We’re not prescribed to do X amount of office or X amount of retail. Obviously we want to have the right balanced neighborhood, but that helps a lot because, to your point, over time markets change.

So that’s answer your question, right? We set a plan, we set a master plan. I think the master plan is really focused on parks and open space and connectivity, and the buildings and the lots that are shown on property and shown on plan, they can be flexible about what the uses will be.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Right. You start big picture.

Matt Mahoney:
That’s right.

Lorne Fultonberg:
And then as it gets closer to, what, 2040, you start to homein a little bit.

Matt Mahoney:
Yeah. And I think once we check the box on the rezoning process and we move to the next chapter, the next chapter really is a focus on our first phase and the buildings that we’re going to be leaning in on developing around the arena.

It’s a new downtown, extension of downtown, just what it is. And they’re going to take time, and both will develop over time, but we’re trying to be very intentional about it, and we’re not trying to rush about it.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Let’s talk a little bit about you. I heard that you started from a pretty modest construction background, flipping houses, doing renovations, that sort of thing.

Matt Mahoney:
Yep.

Lorne Fultonberg:
What appealed to you about the role and industry that you are in now and how did you get there?

Matt Mahoney:
Yeah. Well, I don’t like talking about myself, so then I’ll try to get through this.

Lorne Fultonberg:
You shouldn’t have come on this podcast.

Matt Mahoney:
Yeah. So coming out of college, I graduated with a US history degree and a minor in political science, so getting into real estate development, but that was a while ago obviously, that would be a much harder thing to do I think today. But I’ve always been very, I guess, entrepreneurial, and open to new experiences.

After I graduated, I just really was drawn to the building process and the construction process. And so yes, I got involved in small residential projects, and that kind of just grew and stacked on itself from an experience standpoint into commercial real estate. And then I had an opportunity with East West Partners downtown that just… I got lucky, and I found a group that really took a flyer on me at a young age

East West was coming down through the mountains. They needed young guns. And I just started as an assistant construction director and just worked my way there for 13 years. And I was just extremely fortunate to have that role. And sometimes you just get lucky, and all of my experience was built with East West. I’m cut from that cloth. I care about place making, I care about how people interact with buildings and the development, I care about walkability and transit and mobility, and I’m a downtown guy. My whole career has been downtown Denver on large scale mixed use developments. And I’ve learned from Chris Frampton and Amy Cara and Mark Smith and Harry Frampton. I’ve just been very fortunate to have that start.

Lorne Fultonberg:
We had Chris on the podcast, I think last season, so we’ll make sure that we link that in there so people can listen.

Here at Daniels, we have an outstanding real estate and construction management program that really prides itself on hands-on experience and getting people ready to enter the industry. I imagine US history is a different sort of preparation.

Matt Mahoney:
Right.

Lorne Fultonberg:
How did you go about acquiring the skills that you needed to succeed in your position?

Matt Mahoney:
I went back to Portland after graduating CU. I spent some time at Portland State University, did some construction management classes there, got a certification in that, got a job with Speaker Properties, which is based out of Menlo Park, California. They just kind of threw me in the mix, and that’s where I got my feet wet on how to negotiate leases, what does the construction process look like, how does the development lifecycle look like?

And I was like, this is for me. This really works. I like this. Let’s lean into this. And I just did, and I took any job that would take me, and I did any role within that job that I needed to do, and I just wasn’t afraid to get my hands dirty. I think that’s really key for anyone coming up and wants to be in construction and development. It may not be a perfect role that you get, but just get it. And once you’re in it, just lean into it, and work hard, and things will work out for you.

Lorne Fultonberg:
What are the skills that you feel like have been important to get you to this point?

Matt Mahoney:
I’ve always had the, I think, an ability to kind of step back and say, okay, this is a good opportunity for me. Let’s lean into this. Let’s spend time and energy here on this. Let’s work hard. Let’s treat people right, and let’s try to listen to the community and listen to our stakeholders and try to reflect that.

We go through kind of market cycles of where it’s easier to get a job than other. This is a tight market, right? And kids coming out of school and wanting to get into the business, it’s hard to find an opportunity. I think you want to say, okay, if my end goal is to get into development, and there are no development jobs out there, maybe I need to start really looking at what’s the best finance job that can lead me into that pipeline? What’s the best construction job that can get me to development long term or marketing, right? So that would be the advice that I would give someone coming right out of school right now.

Lorne Fultonberg:
It just has to be a start, right?

Matt Mahoney:
It has to be a start, and you have to be open to a new start. And it might not be ideal, but look at it as a stepping stone, and have patience. You’re in it for the long haul, right?

Lorne Fultonberg:
The last thing that we ask everybody on this podcast is as a voice of experience, what would you want anyone listening to know?

Matt Mahoney:
We talked about just being open, networking with people. I think you can’t reinforce more that relationships matter, who you know and how you can successfully network coming out of school and getting involved in clubs and associations and really just start to build up that network of relationships is going to carry you forward.

Lorne Fultonberg:
How do you build a relationship? How do you make people trust you and frankly like you?

Matt Mahoney:
I think it comes down to standing behind your word, right? And if you tell someone you’re going to do it, you end up doing it, that stacks on top of itself. Proof is in the pudding, and actions speak louder than words. And if you’re a repeat person on positive action and positive results, I think that’s a compounding factor.

Lorne Fultonberg:
That’s Matt Mahoney, Senior Vice President of Development at Kroenke Sports and Entertainment. Matt, thanks for stopping by, and good luck on the project.

Matt Mahoney:
Thank you for having me. It’s been great.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I said it in the episode, and I don’t want to brag, but Daniels does have a pretty special real estate and construction management program. It’s the only one in the country—seriously—that integrates all the aspects of the built environment—that’s real estate, project delivery, asset management. You can read more about the Burns School in our show notes at daniels.du.edu/voe-podcast.

And finally, full disclosure, Matt Mahoney has another Daniels connection. His sister, Kate Dillon, runs our corporate and community relations team, which helps connect our students to companies through case competitions, guest speakers and career-related events. And they’re real good at working with you so you can engage in a way that works for you. We’ll link that too.

The VOE podcast is an extension of Voices of Experience, the signature speaker series at the Daniels College of Business. Sophia Holt and Patrick Orr are our sound engineers. Joshua Muetzel wrote our theme. I’m Lorne Fultonberg. See you next time.

Show Notes

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