Dancing With Disruption

It’s a word that can send a shiver down the spine of an organization. But “disruption” happens every day, Naomi Boyd says, and that isn’t a bad thing. As she takes the helm of the Daniels College of Business, the new dean says higher education is due for a shakeup. On this episode of the Voices of Experience podcast, Boyd outlines what it takes to create an environment that sparks innovation—a quality that is key to her vision for Daniels. Plus, she explains how a leader should listen to a diverse group stakeholders—and how to know when it’s time to stop listening and take action.

Show Notes

Naomi Boyd

Naomi Boyd is the new dean of the Daniels College of Business, a role she began July 1, 2024. Her background spans academia, industry and government. Her research focuses on structural changes in markets and/or processes and the impact those changes have on the underlying microstructure. Boyd previously served as dean at the Virginia Commonwealth University School of Business and associate dean of West Virginia University’s Chambers College of Business, where she was the long-serving chair of its finance department.

2:13 Transitioning from arts to academia
3:43 The aftermath of breaking glass ceilings
5:51 Servant leadership in higher ed
6:58 Keeping everyone happy
How much listening is too much?
10:20 Goals for Daniels
12:24 “Disrupting” in a supportive way
14:21 Teaching students to deal with disruption
15:23 What should people expect from you as dean?
16:45 Life outside the office
17:58 “This is where I am.”
19:38 Show notes and credits

In this episode:

Daniels Newsroom: Naomi Boyd Named New Dean of Daniels College of Business
Daniels Newsroom: New Daniels Dean Ready to Disrupt Higher Education

Transcript

Lorne Fultonberg:
Today, on the Season 4 premiere of the Voices of Experience podcast:

Naomi Boyd:
I really believe that sometimes people need a hug and sometimes people need a kick in the pants, and i am sort of there to do both when it’s needed.

Lorne Fultonberg:
The new dean and her plan to make Daniels *thrive*

Naomi Boyd:
The way that you create buy-in, the way that you really develop what your true north star is going to be is by listening a lot.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Naomi Boyd has done a whole lot of listening since she began her tenure July 1, the latest step in her career in finance and academia.

Here’s a quick rundown of her resume:

a degree in dance from the University of Texas,
a career as a professional ballerina,
some work in economic development for the city of Lubbock, Texas,
a quick job for a food tech startup,
an MBA from Texas Tech,
a PhD in finance from George Washington University,
a stint in the Office of the Chief Economist at the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission,
14 years as faculty at West Virginia University,
and, most recently, the first female dean of the Virginia Commonwealth University business school.

Back to that listening tour she’s been on at Daniels: We asked her on this episode when you know you’ve listened long enough to make decisions, and how to please a wide variety of stakeholders. Plus, we chatted about how she introduces “disruption”—but not panic—into an organization.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Naomi, welcome to the podcast and welcome to Daniels.

Naomi Boyd:
Thank you so much. Excited to be here.

Lorne Fultonberg:
How have your first couple months been?

Naomi Boyd:
They have been amazing. I’ve been struck by a lot of things, but the sense of community around Daniels and within Daniels is something that has been truly inspiring. Everyone I’ve met from alums to corporate partners, to internal constituents is just really excited about what we could do at Daniels and where we’re going to go moving forward. And so it’s a great time to be at Daniels and a great time to have the opportunity to meet all these amazing people.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I have so many questions about where you want to go, but I figure it’s probably best to start with where you’ve been. Was it tough going from an arts background, and I know you had a business minor as an undergrad. But was it a tough transition to academia and to the business world given what you’d been doing before?

Naomi Boyd:
It wasn’t tough for me. It was tough for people around me. I think the perception that You have one path in life, and people tend to have a really linear mindset. I think that’s changing today. But certainly 20 years ago it was a little bit of an uphill battle at first, convincing finance folks that a ballerina could do math was definitely a challenge. But I think from my perspective of having spent so much time in the arts and really having that creative viewpoint of looking at different problems from different angles, it’s informed the way that I approach leadership.

It’s informed the way that I have approached my own research as well as how I sort of handle different types of students. I think everybody should have that individual viewpoint because everyone is coming at it from a different angle. And while there might be a wrong answer, there are certainly many, many right answers. And so really lean into that sort of creativity and innovation in terms of thought and making sure that people feel seen and heard, but also that we look at different types of solutions to the same problem.

Lorne Fultonberg:
So after your PhD, it was onto West Virginia University and then onto Virginia Commonwealth University where you became the first female dean of the business school. Is that right?

Naomi Boyd:
That’s right.

Lorne Fultonberg:
What was that experience like?

Naomi Boyd:
Amazing and challenging in many regards. to have the opportunity to work at two large comprehensive publics was really meaningful because the populations we were serving were incredibly important and special to society in general. But being the first to do anything is challenging. And especially, again, kind of living that life of convincing people that a dancer can do math is sort of set the stage for overcoming some of the challenges of being just a woman in leadership in general. But certainly being the first female dean, I think there were certain challenges. Granted, great opportunity, right? The fact that I was given that opportunity to come in and lead irrespective of my background or really who I was. But I think that when you’re a woman in leadership, when you break a glass ceiling, you tend to end up on the floor with some glass in your hair and maybe some bruises.

And I don’t say that lightly because I think it’s really important to talk about the sort of process of breaking a glass ceiling. And you can break it, but if you don’t break through it, then we’re not really seeing progress. Which is what brought me to Daniels, really. The opportunity to come to an institution that aligned with my value system, that aligned with who I am as a leader.

But overall, great takeaways from my time at VCU, learned an incredible amount. But also learned a lot about who I was as a leader and who I want to be as a leader moving forward and the type of environment that I want to work in. Really looking to lifting people up and being that human leader and that servant leader in an environment that is going to be really responsive.

Lorne Fultonberg:
What does servant leadership mean to you?

Naomi Boyd:
No academic ever begins their career by saying, I’m going to go into administration.

Lorne Fultonberg:
That’s what you don’t want to do, right?

Naomi Boyd:
It is the opposite of what you want to do. And anyone who says that they want to go into administration, usually you’re like, oh, what’s wrong with you? What is happening here? I really was called to serve because there was a need and had a lot of challenges early on working in a male dominated department and was very young. I was just newly tenured, so I didn’t have the gravitas of being a full or endowed professor at that moment in time. And so just trying to navigate all of the intricacies of an academic department.

And at the end of the first year, I reflected and I said, you know what? I actually made people’s lives better. And I think at that moment I said to myself, I may not do this forever because I even now don’t necessarily have any large aspirations to use this as a stepping stone and go become a provost and a president. I really want to stay close to students. I think that’s where servant leadership really comes into play is you’re there to improve the lives of those who are around you and really, I look at it as such an honor to have that ability to serve people.

Lorne Fultonberg:
It seems really hard to start a job when you have so many stakeholders that are from different groups. There’s the students of course, but also faculty who have different priorities than staff, who have different priorities than alumni, who have different priorities than donors and corporate partners and so on. How do you go about learning all of the things that they want and how do you keep them happy?

Naomi Boyd:
I do come from the perspective of if everyone is happy, you’re probably not doing your job. So there is that. So happiness is relative, right? I think it’s more about shepherding people in a meaningful way toward a common goal. And everyone is not going to be happy all the time, but as long as you approach problems and solutions from the mindset or from the lens of everyone having a seat at the table and everyone’s voice being reflected in whatever it is that you’re trying to do, people will be happier than not. And I think that’s really important.

Because I think as leaders, we have to set our projects and priorities, but those projects and priorities shouldn’t come from a top-down approach. They should really come from a grassroots effort of really leaning in and listening. the way that you create buy-in, the way that you really develop what your true North Star is going to be is by listening a lot. And so really have spent the last six weeks since I started at DU, just meeting of a wide variety of stakeholders. And I’m eager to have just the students back on campus and the faculty in the building so that I can start my listening tours with them as well. Because the future is going to be built by all of us. And so really, really excited to take what I’ve learned so far and leverage it and get those other stakeholder’s opinions and then build out what our next 5 to 10 years is going to look like.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Is there a point where you feel like I’ve listened enough, it’s time to really start acting here and making the decisions? And how do you know, if so when that time is?

Naomi Boyd:
That’s a great question. Yes, there is definitely like, okay, my cup runneth over, of saying, okay, we need to make decisions. I think there’s the time element of just the cadence of a new academic year needing to have that vision and that strategy to really motivate and inspire people. But it takes time, right? In my experience, it takes anywhere from six months to a year to really get a handle on, especially when you’re coming in from the outside and you don’t have that institutional knowledge. Who have we been and who can we become? And I do think that anything that we build has to be aspirational.

It cannot just be complacent and muddled in where we’ve been. It really has to be, okay, how are we going to level up in a meaningful way? That being said, yes, there is that moment of we need to put pen to paper.

Frankly, it’s kind of like writing a dissertation. At some point you have to sit down at the dining room table, open the computer and just start to synthesize all of that information. But you have lots of help too. You have lots of partners, and then it’s an iterative process.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I understand that one of your favorite books is Start with Why. And I haven’t read it, but I understand that the big takeaway is that you have to have an end goal in mind before you get started. What’s your end goal that you have in mind here at Daniels?

Naomi Boyd:
I mean, I think thriving, right? I do believe, and that’s across the board, our alums, our corporate partners, our students, our faculty and staff, all of us need to be inspired every day. And we need to get to the point where we’re not just coming in and doing our jobs, but we’re actually accelerating and moving something forward. And as I said, I think higher ed is at an inflection point. I think that we are being called into question every day. So it’s about how are we creating that value add? Are we producing a great product, right? Are we actually contributing to our communities in important ways? Contributing both in research as well as thought leadership and training of amazing students. And I think the heart of all of that really should be based on experiences.

Students don’t want to sit in lecture halls and be told facts anymore. They want to be given a prose and told, come up with a solution, but we’ll give you some scaffolding. We’ll give you some boundary conditions, but we’re not going to prescribe exactly how you’re going to solve this. And I think that’s something that Daniels in particular does really well, but I think we can even move beyond that to really level up who we are in the higher ed space and move past what our legacy has been to really propel us into the future. I’ve been keeping a list of all of the amazing foundational elements of Daniels, but it’s always a question of what three or four things are we really going to lean into that are going to make that huge impact and that huge difference?

Lorne Fultonberg:
I guess we can cut you some slack six weeks in, but I’m going to demand an answer in October.

Naomi Boyd:
Okay. Sounds good.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I know a big term for you is this idea of disruption, and that could be internally or externally within the organization here. And I feel like disruption is a term that can make your colleagues and your employees shudder a little bit and wonder what exactly disruption is going to mean. How do you communicate this idea without scaring people that you’re going to maybe change things for the “worse?”

Naomi Boyd:
Right. So I don’t believe in change for change sake, right? We have too much to do and have too many, as you said, too many stakeholders that we are having to be attending to. Disruption to me really comes into play from the thought process of innovation. People cannot innovate unless they feel safe. So step one in the process is again, going back to that kind of humanistic leadership component of creating environments of safety. And safety, meaning physical, emotional, psychological, all of those things. But if people feel safe, it also means that they’re well-supported And I look at disruption is really looking at things through different lenses. It’s not a distraction, which oftentimes disruption can be a distraction if you let it. It really is about being in an environment where trying different things is celebrated, whether it works or not, right? As a leader, I have to be there to not only push my teams to disrupt and to think outside of the box, but really to be there to support them if things start to slip a little and say, okay, maybe this isn’t working.

And I think that’s where building in those KPIs into when and where we are disrupting is really important because it’s reflective and it is a sense of accountability around what we’re doing and why we’re doing it. I think we are disrupted every single day, whether it’s a disruptive pandemic or whether it is a disruptive new technology. It is changing the way in which we work and live. And when those things happen, I think also the piece that we need to be training students to do is how do you react to that? Use that disruption to then accelerate and advance something innovative that is outside of the box?

That’s what I want our students to do, is to come in and be those thought leaders, to be those people who have those entrepreneurial spirits where they’re not afraid to try new things. They’re not afraid to fail, but they also recognize when they are failing and it’s time to take a step back and reflect. And so you sort of have disruption, but then later on top of that, you have to have mindfulness of having more of a reflective nature. And from there you can innovate and lead and accelerate and do all of the amazing things that I hope us at Daniels are going to be doing over the next few years.

Lorne Fultonberg:
What should people expect from you as Dean?

Naomi Boyd:
Everything.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Everything? It’s a high bar.

Naomi Boyd:
It is, but I really believe that sometimes people need a hug and sometimes people need a kick in the pants, and I am sort of there to do both when it’s needed. But I also think that everyone who I am serving, there should be a high level of accountability back on me and high levels of expectation in terms of where we’re going to go over the next few years. And I have a deep sense of responsibility, but I like that open dialogue. I like when people… Because I can’t read minds, right? When people are coming to me and having those moments of radical candor of saying, we’re headed in this direction, I need a bigger conversation around this, or I disagree with you.

I think that’s great because leaders are only as good as the people who surround them. And I think having those different viewpoints, I mean, at the end of the day, I have to make a decision eventually, and it is what it is. Again, you can’t make everyone happy, but I want people to feel empowered to come and say, what do you think about this? Or, I don’t agree with this. And then let’s come up with a solution that makes people feel that we’re headed in the right direction.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Let’s talk about you as a person a little bit outside of the office, if that ever happens. What do you like to do? What motivates you?

Naomi Boyd:
I love to travel. I have three great kids and a husband, and we have traveled all over the world with our kids. Early in our parenthood, we would take our kids everywhere with us, and a lot of our friends looked at us like we were crazy, but we’re kind of all in.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Got a favorite spot?

Naomi Boyd:
Well, our all-time favorite spot is we do have a home in St. Croix. We’ve been going there for 20 years and it is a truly second home to my kids, but Germany would probably be my second favorite. We’ve lived there so many different times on different occasions. My kids keep me really busy. They’re all very active and involved in sports and dance and music and all of those things. But the rare moments that I do have time, I really like to take really long walks by myself and just sort of reflect on where I am in the world. And that was really helpful during COVID, but it’s been helpful for me to just give me those moments of mindfulness that you oftentimes don’t get when you’re running a hundred miles an hour every day.

Lorne Fultonberg:
The last question I have for you is something that we ask all of our guests on this podcast, and that’s as a Voice of Experience, what’s something that you would want to share with our listeners?

Naomi Boyd:
if I were to pick one thing, it’s just to enjoy the moment in which you’re in. I feel like things change so rapidly these days that oftentimes we don’t take a step back and just say, this is where I am in this world and in this time and space. Know that life is not linear and know there are going to be peaks and valleys, and oftentimes you’re going to be to take a line from the Dr. Seuss book or the places you’ll go. You’re going to be in the waiting place a lot in your life and in your career. And in those moments, don’t despair, lean in and use it as a mechanism to change or shift, but always find passion and purpose in everything you do. I think that is what creates longevity and career. I loved being a ballerina and I love being a faculty member, and I love being a dean, and I never thought I would say that, but I really do.

And so there’s moments to find those nuggets of joy, I guess, in whatever it is, even if it’s a mundane task. Because I think as society has advanced and we have all these disruptions and we have technology at our fingertips, we’re really missing out on living and breathing and what is around us. And so I think that you can find a lot more meaning in life by doing that.

Lorne Fultonberg:
That is Naomi Boyd, the new dean of the Daniels College of Business. Naomi, thank you so much.

Naomi Boyd:
Thanks so much for having me.

Lorne Fultonberg:
There are way too many interesting things about dean boyd to fit into a little podcast episode—that’s why there are our show notes! Check out our feature article and little video—whether she’s an iPhone or an Android, if she prefers a gran jete or a pirouette—daniels.du.edu/voe-podcast.

You’ll also find all of our episodes from the last couple of years, in case you need to catch up. If you’re new here you’ll get a new episode every month, just hit subscribe. The Voices of Experience podcast is an extension of the signature speaker series at the Daniels College of Business … sponsored by U.S. Bank.

Sophia Holt is our sound engineer, Joshua Muetzel wrote our theme. I’m Lorne Fultonberg. Here’s to Season 4.

Show Notes

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