Beyond Winning: Building a Successful Sports Franchise

In just their second season, the NHL’s Seattle Kraken put together a solid record, made the playoffs and even won their first-round playoff series. But during an 82-game pro hockey season, losses are inevitable—which means teams need to find ways to send their fans home happy, even when the customer may not be satisfied with the on-ice result. Sam Holloway (MA 2007, MBA 2012), the co-owner and co-chair of the Kraken, is working to build a fanbase, create a winning culture and center the team’s off-ice values. Holloway joined the Voices of Experience podcast to talk about building a brand, whether winning cures all and how to separate the emotions of being a fan from the pragmatism of being a business owner.

Show Notes

Sam Holloway

Sam Holloway is the co-owner and co-chair of the Seattle Kraken. She graduated with a master’s degree from the University of Denver’s Graduate School of Professional Psychology in 2007 and an Executive MBA from the Daniels College of Business in 2012.

1:42 The sports industry vs. others
2:30 Building a fanbase in Seattle
4:09 What it means to be “customer obsessed”
5:33 Delivering a good experience during a loss
“Stick to sports?”
9:42 From psychology to business
11:12 Using “context switching” to balance priorities
14:11 Returning for an MBA
16:29 Separating emotions from business decisions
17:55 Tactics for hard conversations
19:00 Are you on the hot seat?
19:45 Advice from other owners
20:57 “Your career is a journey”
21:56 Show notes and credits

In this episode:

The Hockey News: Kraken Co-Owner Samantha Holloway On “Customer Obsession”
The Hockey News: Samantha Holloway in Conversation with W. Graeme Roustan
Climate Pledge Arena’s sustainability initiatives

Transcript

Lorne Fultonberg:
Today, on the Voices of Experience podcast:

Sam Holloway:
No matter what the score looks like, people stay till the end because they’re having such a great time.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Creating a winning brand, even when your brand isn’t literally winning.

Sam Holloway:
You need to learn from the people what they want in order to develop the right product.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Pro hockey’s Seattle Kraken hit a big milestone last year. In just its second season, the Kraken clawed their way into the playoffs and then—oh it hurts me to say this—beat the defending champion Colorado Avalanche.

For Sam Holloway, the Kraken’s co-owner and co-chair, victory was sweet, but only one ingredient in the recipe for a successful hockey franchise. Seattle’s last professional hockey team left town 100 years ago, in 1924, and so Holloway and her team have worked hard to re-introduce the sport while building relationships in the local community.

On today’s episode, Holloway joined us from inside the Kraken Community Iceplex, as you may hear, to talk about building a brand, whether winning cures all and how to separate the emotions of being a fan from the pragmatism of being a business owner.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Sam, thanks for being here.

Samantha Holloway:
Thanks for having me.

Lorne Fultonberg:
First thing’s first, can we get you to go on the record and formally apologize for beating the Avalanche in the Stanley Cup playoffs last year?

Samantha Holloway:
Not a chance. Glorious moment. Love the Avs, of course, but no disrespect. Great team. It was a great series.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I thought I could get a Coloradan to maybe slip that in, but I should have known better. Let’s start by talking about your work managing an NHL team. I know you’re an experienced business person. Stepping into this role, did this feel any different than the other businesses that you’ve managed?

Samantha Holloway:
I think there’s definitely an adjustment moving from technology to sports. But at the end of the day, it’s still actually a scaling organization. The Kraken are new, so still an entrepreneurial effort. Lots of overlap. Definitely learning each day, as is important in any role. So it’s definitely different. Your product is not software. It is a group of people playing a game, and you only have so much control over the product, so to speak, right? And so it’s very emotional, but also very exciting. So lots of ups and downs. And again, just kind of similar organizational issues as would be anywhere.

Lorne Fultonberg:
What did it take to build a fan base in Seattle?

Samantha Holloway:
Seattle is a great sports community, and actually has a great hockey community as well. I’m sitting right now in our training center, the Kraken Community Iceplex. It’s both the training facility as well as our corporate offices, but also an actual community center where we have leagues, adult leagues, kids leagues, girl leagues, women leagues, birthday parties, a restaurant, et cetera. And so there’s this huge demand in this market for hockey, so much so that we’re at capacity here.

People were really, really excited to welcome the new team back. It’s a little bit different than in other markets. We’re still growing. We are still growing the sport. We have the diehard hockey fans that had a different team before supporting ours, and we have the broader sports community. There’s not another huge winter sport here, so there’s no NBA team here at the moment. And then we just have people who wanted to get out and do something, especially in a post-COVID era. So people in the arena every night are just happy. We talked about it in our weekly meeting right before this podcast, but it’s true. I mean, no matter what the score looks like, people stay til the end because they’re having such a great time.

The community here has really embraced it and embraced a lot of what we’re giving back to the community, but we still have a long way to go. There’s still a lot of people who don’t know about the sport of hockey or don’t know about the Kraken, and hockey isn’t the easiest sport to learn.

What we’ve gone about telling folks is that you don’t have to understand it fully. So we have something for the diehard hockey fan, and we will help you on the journey if you’re just learning the rules of the game. And that’s a hard balance, but something we’ve been working on here as we expand the reach of the fans. I think the first thing is getting folks in the building.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I was listening to an interview you did with the Hockey News, which we can link to in our show notes, and you described yourself as customer obsessed. And so I wanted to ask you who your customer is in Seattle, and what their needs are beyond winning?

Samantha Holloway:
My background is on customer sides of business, whether that’s marketing or sales or customer success. The idea is you need to learn from the people what they want in order to develop the right product. And that’s also true for a new brand like the Kraken or any kind of organization. So we have many different customers here. We have our kind of GA fan, we have the customer that comes to the Community Iceplex that’s not necessarily going to the games. We have our club seat holders, we have our suite holders. We have our corporate partners. There’s so many different groups of stakeholders here.

And then of course with regard to the arena, there’s folks that are just coming and going to concerts, so to speak. So it’s so important for us to understand the motivation for each of these unique people to understand what they want out of their experience. Why are they going? It’s a premium experience. It’s not inexpensive, and we want to make sure that we’re getting feedback all along the way. So for us, it’s very important to get data, whether that’s from focus groups or surveys that we do after every event, anecdotes here and there. Everything is important, and then it’s up to us to sift through the noise and understand where we can do a better job.

Lorne Fultonberg:
You mentioned earlier, no matter what the score is, you’re looking to provide a great experience to your fans in Seattle. The Kraken had a great year last season. They had a great record at home. They made the playoffs. But still there are 18,000 people in Climate Pledge Arena that have to go home after a loss sometimes. How do you make the hockey game an experience that the score doesn’t necessarily determine how much fun someone’s having there?

Samantha Holloway:
Yeah. I’m not sure this will last forever as this becomes more of a hockey town. And of course I want to be clear, winning is very important to us as well. But the plan has always been to build the organization from the ground up and it may take a little longer. We exceeded all those expectations starting last year, which has pleased all of us. So winning is extremely important and it does make everything else easier. So it’s more fun to go to a game, of course, that’s when you win.

However, again, I think for us, people are still new to the game and it is still so exciting, and everything is kind of unexpected. So in the NHL, it’s very interesting. There’s obviously teams that are better than others. But any team could win any game. That’s where the sport has come. It’s that competitive and that exciting. And I think that nobody knows what they’ll get one evening in any game anywhere. And so for us, we have to focus on in-game experience. Hockey ops can focus on the team, but we have to focus on what can we do in arena from the mascot to the music to the food, making sure that everyone’s in their seats at the right time. It’s actually a crazy amount of coordination and work, and that is very different for me than obviously co-founding and running a software company.

But I think for us it’s about keeping that positive. it’s the people that we’ve surrounded ourselves with, it’s the people that make up this organization. Everyone is here to have fun and everyone is very positive.

Maybe it’s the world we live in today, but it’s kind of necessary. Sport is the thing that brings people happiness right now. It doesn’t need to be divisive; it’s inclusive, and that I think is why it’s so special.

Lorne Fultonberg:
The Kraken have been really upfront about their values on the ice, but also off the ice. DEI is a priority for you all. No secret there. The Kraken have the NHL’s first black play-by-play announcer. There were women in several key leadership positions there. Your home arena is carbon-neutral. Where do those things rank in your list of priorities as a business? And what do you say to people who might say to you that they want you to stick to sports?

Samantha Holloway:
It is a priority for us, and we are lucky in the way that we’ve gotten to build this from the ground up. So in some ways that’s obviously extremely difficult, but in some ways it’s also easier than having a club that’s been around for a long time and you have to go in and figure out the plumbing and what needs to be fixed. And not to say that we’ve gotten everything right, of course not. But I do think that our CEO, Todd Leiweke, has really built this organization with integrity and authenticity from the beginning. Giving back to the community in the right way is really important. Having diversity everywhere throughout the organization, but not just because you’re supposed to, but because it’s actually helpful is really important.

The NHL actually is really working on that authentically also. I think hockey is one of those sports that people feel like is a little behind. And it’s hard. It takes years to become good at playing hockey or understanding hockey, so you have to work on filling the top of the funnel with people that don’t look like everyone who’s done it forever in order to eventually get to a different place. So you have to look at it everywhere along the journey. But it is important to us, and it’s important to do it the right way so it’s not lip service. It’s a piece of the organization.

Lorne Fultonberg:
You have degrees in psychology, one of them is from the University of Denver here, and a background in tech. How did you start on this journey in business?

Samantha Holloway:
I think all throughout my career there has been nuggets of that waved in. Back to my days at University of Michigan, working with some friends to start a graphic design company. After my first stint at DU, I opened a store in Cherry Creek. Done several things along the way, always wanted to create something new and add value in that way. And then partway through my MBA I co-founded a software company with one of my friends at DU, as well as another friend outside of DU, and we ended up going through Techstars Boulder. So it just came to me. I think the opportunity is just, I don’t know, things happened for a reason. And so it feels like I finally found where I needed to go.

I think people who are young often ask me, “How did you know what you wanted to do?” And I said, “It took 40 years basically. So you have to try lots of different things, and I think all of those different experiences help pave your path.” I think psychology is a great foundation for any occupation, right? It helps you understand and connect with people. And at the end of day, that’s why I’m customer obsessed. I’m a people person. Relationships are really important to me and understanding where people are coming from, and that’s really how you get deals done.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Speaking of questions that younger people ask you, we have a question from one of our students here

Cruz Lopez:
My name is Cruz Lopez. I’m a student here at the University of Denver and I’m a business management major. I just want to know what it’s like to try to balance all the different businesses and the opportunities that you have in your life, given that you have a big piece in the Seattle Kraken and you have a few of your own businesses, which seem to be really successful. So how do you just kinda balance that and make sure you’re not giving one too much of your time?

Samantha Holloway:
That’s a great question. The short answer is, it’s impossible. The longer answer is, you just do the best you can. So I think for me, context switching is very easy. And so I think that’s allowing me to do it. Even today I have this podcast, I had a weekly meeting before this, I have an in-person coffee about a startup after this. And I think understanding your strengths and weaknesses will help you understand which path. And not to say that being good at context switching is necessarily a good thing, it’s just a strength that I happen to have. So it’s allowed me to do many different things.

I think when I, even five years ago, the joke was I never wrote anything down because I could remember everything. Now I have two kids and a dog and I can’t remember anything, so I have to write everything down. And to me, it’s fun. I feel accomplished not by being busy or having lots of meetings, but by being able to accomplish things in different areas. And sometimes I don’t get as much done in one thing as I’d hoped. I think for me it’s really important to understand when to say no to things. I think that’s a big piece of being successful in the things that you are doing is don’t spread yourself too thin. I like to say I don’t want to half ass anything, and I’ve learned that the hard way in some ways.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Is there any way that you can practice context switching or build that skillset?

Samantha Holloway:
I don’t know the answer to that. I am a big fan of trying new things and of course practicing, and there’s the whole 10,000-hour bit. But I think some things are just like, what are you good at? Some things are innate. Are you a relationship person? That necessarily isn’t something you learn over time. I’m an extrovert so I can go to games, 41 of them plus a season and I’m kind of on at all the games. It’s not until the 38th game that I’m like, “Wow, I’m kind of tired.”

But I think everybody has different strengths and weaknesses, and I think being able to play into those as you sort out what you want to do with your life is important. I like to say there’s no work life balance because it’s just your life, so you better pick something that doesn’t mean you can’t have balance, but it is all part of your life. And so make that as a consideration.

Lorne Fultonberg:
You got your master’s degree from the University of Denver in 2007, and then you came back to get your MBA after you had already been working in the business world. What made you want to come back and get that MBA?

Samantha Holloway:
I think I had a great foundation on, again, people, and I had been working. I had the master’s in forensic psychology, so I was doing some interesting work in Denver there. But I think I just wasn’t quite… That’s really hard work, and really big kudos to people who can do it. I think I was getting pulled more in a business direction. I had opened a store with a friend in Cherry Creek, and it was kind of successful, I would say. This is actually the worst kind of business. It wasn’t amazing and it wasn’t awful, and those are hard businesses. But I think I didn’t like it as much as I thought I would either. And then the recession, and Nordstrom opened, and it felt like it was time to maybe learn more about business if I wanted to really be in business. And that was why I decided to go back and get my MBA. I wanted to learn more. I love learning generally, but I thought, “I don’t actually know enough about this, so I’m going to go back and learn more.”

Lorne Fultonberg:
What did you take from the MBA, and how did it prepare you for the roles that you got subsequently?

Samantha Holloway:
I think a big piece obviously of the MBA is networking, and just the people that you meet and their stories that you hear. You get access to that, and for me that was really important. The most important thing that I got out of the MBA, in addition to obviously learning the basics of finance, et cetera, was meeting one of my co-founders, Joey Alfano, and that truly did change my life. I mean, all the work was important. I do a lot of presenting now, which has taken a lot of time to get better at in public speaking, and obviously DU prepares you for that. The one time I ever did a presentation and it was so terrible, was, I can’t remember what class it was, but I remember getting up and just totally f***ing it up and being like, “Wow, I just never want that to happen again.” You have to do those experiences to grow from them. I learned that if you’re not prepared, you won’t do a good job.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I’ve heard you talk about the unique position you’re in as the owner of a sports team where you’re a fan and you’re an executive, and sometimes you have to separate the emotions from your decision making process.

Samantha Holloway:
Yeah, I think it’s interesting. I’ve learned. My kids have gotten better, but at the beginning of the first season and we lost the first game, and my son, who’s eight now, got really sad. And I was like, “Gosh, it’s going to be a long season.” And so there’s going to be ups and there’s going to be downs. That was just a real overt example of this, but it’s true. We all hear everyone in the office, and you’re texting, you’re watching the games, and people are emotional about it. And you also know the players and they’re lovely people. You want the best for everybody. And then you look at the fans and you want the fans to have a great experience, and you want people to renew their tickets.

So there’s so many moving pieces that you just have to stay measured. I think our general manager, Ron Francis who’s a Hall of Famer and amazing person, but I always look at him and he’s very measured. There’s pros and cons of that, but I love that. It’s true, sports can be very emotional, just as a startup can be, right? There’s ups and downs, but you feel a little more emotionally tied to it when you feel like it’s yours, and so I think you just take it day by day.

Lorne Fultonberg:
In that same vein, when you have to have a hard conversation with somebody that you really like about work, what are your tactics for approaching those conversations?

Samantha Holloway:
I’m known for being very direct. That doesn’t mean you can’t be empathetic. I think it’s really important, especially whether it’s here or somewhere else, to make sure that you can focus on really what’s been done well. There’s so many positive things, and usually if something needs improvement, unless something has really gone sideways. It’s important to level set that everyone can improve, and here are some things we can work on. There’s things I can work on. I think everybody receives feedback in a different way, so I think that’s where understanding relationships and understanding how certain people like to receive feedback and in what forum, those things are super important. And then if you have to make a really tough decision, it’s better to do it quickly and appropriately.

Lorne Fultonberg:
I know it’s pretty early into the Kraken’s history here. Do you ever feel as an owner like you are on the hot seat and the one that is ultimately responsible for wins and losses?

Samantha Holloway:
Yeah, I think as the owner, the buck stops with you. There’s amazing people that run this organization that have great experience, but you witness it in sports, even other sports in other cities as well. You read about it on the front page of the sports column about so-and-so’s gone now. It’s kind of a cutthroat environment, and so knowing the environment is really important. I think being aware of the surroundings. But it’s definitely a little bit different.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Have you sought advice from other owners of professional sports franchises as you’ve tried to figure this thing out?

Samantha Holloway:
Definitely. People have been very receptive, and actually the other owners in the NHL have been really welcoming to me, as has Gary Bettman.

Lorne Fultonberg:
That’s the commissioner of the NHL.

Samantha Holloway:
Yeah. I think people do want to help broadly. Obviously I’m in a unique and different position as there’s not a lot of females in these types of roles, and so generally people are supportive. That can look different ways. But yeah, I’m always for getting advice. I’m going to collect as much data as I can, and then I’ll forge my own path.

Lorne Fultonberg:
Is there one piece of advice that someone shared with you that has been particularly helpful?

Samantha Holloway:
The one I got most recently, which was kind of interesting, was just to make sure I’m having fun still, because you can get bogged down and everything, and this is supposed to be fun. Sports is supposed to bring joy and be fun, and I want to help facilitate that. I can’t really do that if I’m not having fun. And so I thought that was an excellent reminder.

Lorne Fultonberg:
There’s a question that we ask all of our guests in closing here on the podcast, and that’s as our voice of experience for the month, what’s one thing that you would like our audience to know that you haven’t already mentioned?

Samantha Holloway:
I guess I would just think about your career as a journey. Don’t think about where you want to end up at the end; think about what you want to do along the way. Because I’m in a position I never thought I would be in, and obviously I’m very fortunate and privileged to be here. I’ve done lots of different things along the way, and each one, whether I liked it or not, has added a lot of value and given me great experience. So it’s always great to have aspirations, but enjoy where you are today and give people the benefit of the doubt.

Lorne Fultonberg:
That’s Sam Holloway, the co-owner and co-chair of the Seattle Kraken, and a two-time graduate of the University of Denver. Sam, thank you so much for stopping by.

Samantha Holloway:
I really enjoyed it. Thanks for having me.

Lorne Fultonberg:
To help get the city set for the Kraken’s arrival, Seattle poured $1.15 billion into renovating what is now known as Climate Pledge Arena. Check out our show notes for a glimpse inside the stadium and the steps it’s taken to become carbon-neutral, zero waste and water conscious. You’ll find it at daniels.du.edu/voe-podcast.

The VOE podcast is an extension of Voices of Experience, the signature speaker series at the Daniels College of Business, sponsored by U.S. Bank. Sophia Holt is our sound engineer. Joshua Muetzel wrote our theme. I’m Lorne Fultonberg. If you’ve got a second, leave a rating or review on this episode, and we’ll see you next time.

Beyond Winning: Building a Successful Sports Franchise

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